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HELP with Bascom Language

 
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hgrueneis

Bascom Member



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 883
Location: A-4786 Brunnenthal

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: HELP with Bascom Language Reply with quote

This forum slowly turns into a MANUAL.
What is all of a sudden wrong with RTFM.
I used to work with microprocessors and switched to microcontrollers about two years ago. I had to read and inform myself about it's possibilities. To expect help for reading the manual??
Most of the people helped also never let anyone know or thank them. To be polite is obviosly not "IN".
Here a hint for those: "HELP/INDEX/LANGUAGE Reference ******".
It is only a mouse click away.
Have fun and read the manual. This forum in my opinion should be for real help.
Hubert
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ollopa

Bascom Member



Joined: 03 Sep 2007
Posts: 233
Location: California

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also the forum search button, so we don't have to keep answering the same 5 questions over and over again. I'm on another forum where people are actually banned if they don't search the forum before asking a question. It seems fascist, but it works. It's a board with high quality discussions between people of above average intellect. Too bad it's not about microcontrollers!

I think there are a lot of people who are not engineers or programmers and just want to solve a problem. They are drawn to products and places like this because they think they can solve their problem without having to learn about hardware architecture or programming. Unfortunately, BASIC is not a replacement for your brain. Just because the language is easy to use does not mean you can bypass the hard work of reading datasheets and programming references.

I agree that it is frustrating when people show up and ask "How do I connect two AVRs together?" or "Why doesn't this compile: var = (a+b)*C/D ?" or "Do you have code that will accept all my problems as input and produce world peace as output? I just want a program, I don't want to write it..." or "My program doesn't work. Somebody fix it!"

I restrain myself from writing nasty replies both because it will solve nothing and I don't want to develop a reputation as a jerk. Some other people on this forum, however, always reply with very patient and sincere advice. I really respect you guys who have such patience.


Sometimes, however, people ask the same questions over and over because the documentation is outdated or poor. Not everyone knows to look in the margins of the history files to see what has changed from one release to the next. Some of the example code is poorly written or not particularly helpful/useful. As much as I agree that people need to RTFM and do their part before coming here, I think TFM needs a rewrite and some updates.

Sometimes I wonder if the community here should create a collaborative documentation project like a wiki. It would be nice if there were a resource that we could improve upon ourselves and direct people to with standard solutions to common problems/questions, example code of useful techniques, and documentation written in a clear and current way by native speakers. Our bilingual members could also translate and maintain the resources in multiple languages. I think it would be much more efficient than putting all the responsibility on Mark or whoever does it now. We could even automatically convert the html to a CHM help file for use with the program.
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scottjge

Bascom Member



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 17

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very good points but what about the people that RTFM and still can't find the answer ? I have always looked at it this way, " If you don't want to answer a post then don't ", you don't even have to read it you think that it is another rhetorical question. What is the forum for if it isn't to ask for help and advise from people when you can not find the answer ? How about Google ? I have seen times when I have googled for days or weeks and never found anything that could help me. I would ask a question on the forum and someone would direct me to a page that they searched and found an answer or at least some information. Why didn't I have the exact phrase as they did when I did a google search ? No two people think alike. What is hard for some come by nature to others. Sometimes it isn't even the software that is a problem but the hardware and it is nice to have someone point that out to you, because you have been so rapped up in RTFM that you overlooked the hardware. If everyone was a Engineer and had a Master's in Computer Science, this forum wouldn't even be needed, because if we were all that smart and that good, we wouldn't need to communicate on any forum. The forum helps out Mark, so he isn't answering hundreds of email and question for support. The one thing that I always found on this forum was that, everyone was friendly and willing to help a fellow Bascom'er out. But apparently the tide has started to turn, which is too bad. This is one of the best forums that I have ever had a chance to be a part of. I hope that the majority of the Bascom'ers don't feel that way and continue to help people and point them in the right direction when needed.

Here is a little scenario for you....... I was on a forum one day and answered a post that was definitely a beginner question, so I jumped in to help the guy out. Well I got the nastiest reply from some so called expert telling me that I was giving the right advise and I shouldn't answer anything if I didn't know the correct answer. Well....... out of 157 people that viewed the original post by the beginner, not one of them answered , only me. Then I get whipped but some jerk for answering and he did not like my answer. Then why didn't he answer the original post if he new so much, instead of reading post just to find fault with someone else. He took the time to read it, why not answer it ? Long story short.... I no longer belong to that forum, nor do I support that product. I think they need to take a look at their members a little closer.

If you don't want to answer a post then don't, lets make everyone work as hard as we did and maybe we can discourage them enough that maybe they will leave and not ask an questions at all.

Well, that is my two cents on the subject, whether I get another reaming or not. I plead to the majority of this forum to stay as you are and do not change. You have something special going on here.

Thanks to all the people that have helped me along the way.
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Rick-S

Bascom Member



Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 50

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Do you have code that will accept all my problems as input and produce world peace as output?


LOL, I almost bust a gut on that one! Very Happy Very Happy
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scottjge

Bascom Member



Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 17

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check Support out as stated here.

http://www.mcselec.com/index2.php?option=com_forum&Itemid=59&page=viewtopic&t=2425
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hgrueneis

Bascom Member



Joined: 04 Apr 2009
Posts: 883
Location: A-4786 Brunnenthal

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of you are right. I did not talk about people who try to find the right answer with help of this forum and at the same time also try to find the information in the Help files or by searching this or other forums.
I was talking about the ones that ask about the functions of BASCOM commands or statements where the "Help" file describes the situation perfectly but want other people to do the reading for them! Most of the material is wrtten so that individuals who do not have a degree in electronics or computing can understand it. I know, the sample programs are sometimes not helping much because of missing outcome or description. This also has nothing to do with wanting to help or not. The only thing I wanted to say: If help is required ... OK. but do a little homework first. I also think that this forum is a grat place to learn and most of the people responding shoud be thanked for spending their time to do this. I did not try to offend anybody by this post..everybody has to start somewhere...me too. If I had no intention to help where I can, then I would not be on this forum.
Thanks to all who help.
Hubert
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Duval JP

Bascom Member



Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 1012
Location: France

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
philosophical question as I like it.

first of all I would like said: I write the french book about bascom, and I'm moderator for the french site about bascom.
http://www.atmicroprog.com/forum/index.php

I see 3 groups of peoples:
The students'one , they would like we make their works Wink then I / we give them the way to do.

The passionate or the user for works, some time we have very interresting exchange.

the curious, people who come 1 or 2 times then diseapear.

but I never let a question without an answers.



if you want to said RTFM give it the way of it:
http://www.mcselec.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=251&Itemid=67


with my pleasure and sorry for my bad english

Wink

JP
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snipacarina

Bascom Member



Joined: 28 Jun 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Åland

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: HELP with Bascom Language Reply with quote

hgrueneis wrote:

Have fun and read the manual. This forum in my opinion should be for real help.
Hubert

To get to know the CORRECT word to search for, can be a valuable REAL HELP, if one wants to find something in the manual. Especially when the manual is written in a none native language...
Good Luck Everyone!
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